No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

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tschrama
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by tschrama »

I dont get it... they released a double core.. but no float arithmic support? So it cannt do anything fancy like signal processing. What's the point ?
mrburnette
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by mrburnette »

tschrama wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:00 pm
I dont get it... they released a double core.. but no float arithmic support? So it cannt do anything fancy like signal processing. What's the point ?
... as I stated, there must be some behind-the-scenes partners. I am sure the FP and RTOS support will come, but later. Maybe they needed to fab 500K units to hit their price-point? That means that the software will follow the hardware.
ag123
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by ag123 »

tschrama wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:00 pm
I dont get it... they released a double core.. but no float arithmic support? So it cannt do anything fancy like signal processing. What's the point ?
it'd seem to cater to the segment who wanted more gpios and analog (adc) on the soc. it is still a pretty big segment.
after all things like stm32f103 don't have fpu but it is used in a lot of applications. it is only with the stm32f4xx that fpu become part of this.

a thing is they could have integrated wifi or bluetooth radios like esp32, but it seemed it isn't there
mrburnette
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by mrburnette »

ag123 wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:05 pm
...
a thing is they could have integrated wifi or bluetooth radios like esp32, but it seemed it isn't there
No one really wants to have to face the delay of FCC certification (read this as country-dependent.)
stevestrong
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by stevestrong »

I think the strength of Pico is the programmable IO, which is very powerful, can be programmed in different modes, but it requires some programming knowledge. I haven't seen before such a solution.
mrburnette
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by mrburnette »

stevestrong wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:16 pm
I think the strength of Pico is the programmable IO, which is very powerful, can be programmed in different modes, but it requires some programming knowledge. I haven't seen before such a solution.
Old trick...
Using configurable analog and digital blocks, designers can create and change mixed-signal embedded applications. The digital blocks are state machines that are configured using the blocks registers. There are two types of digital blocks, Digital Building Blocks (DBBxx) and Digital Communication Blocks (DCBxx). Only the communication blocks can contain serial I/O user modules, such as SPI, UART, etc.

Programmable Analog Blocks
Customize your analog front end to interface to any analog sensor through programmable analog blocks, which are composed of an assortment of opamps, comparators, ADCs, and DACs, enabling complex analog signal flows.

Programmable Digital Blocks
Programmable digital blocks are composed of Universal Digital Blocks (UDBs), Serial Communication Blocks (SCBs), and Timer/Counter/Pulse Width Modulators (TCPWM). These blocks can be configured to set-up custom digital interfaces, state machines, and custom logic functions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypress_PSoC

Image
ag123
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by ag123 »

it seemed one of the main 'os' are the likes of micro python etc
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... g-started/
that could possibly make it 'less intimidating' for beginners than messing with c/c++ as it is interpreted.
e.g. blinking the led may be as simple as typing commands and hit enter.
the pico has quite a lot of sram hence, micro python is easy with that

arduino etc starts with low resources mcu and c/c++ is a native best fit for that

another thing is apparently the pico has quite a lot of peripherals on chip and on board
RP2040 microcontroller chip designed by Raspberry Pi in the United Kingdom
Dual-core Arm Cortex M0+ processor, flexible clock running up to 133 MHz
264KB of SRAM, and 2MB of on-board Flash memory
Castellated module allows soldering direct to carrier boards
USB 1.1 with device and host support
Low-power sleep and dormant modes

Drag-and-drop programming using mass storage over USB
26 × multi-function GPIO pins
2 × SPI, 2 × I2C, 2 × UART, 3 × 12-bit ADC, 16 × controllable PWM channels
Accurate clock and timer on-chip
Temperature sensor
Accelerated floating-point libraries on-chip
8 × Programmable I/O (PIO) state machines for custom peripheral support
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... g-started/

for the curious the datasheet is there, PIO is described in quite some detail
https://datasheets.raspberrypi.org/rp20 ... asheet.pdf
mrburnette
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by mrburnette »

Aargh :o

MicroPython :o is akin to BASIC, an interpreter... a rather fancy interpreter, but... I will remind readers that the MicroPython binary is written in C.

PIO is old tech... those who have ever worked with Cypress PSoC will recognize configurable component blocks, UDB. PSoC even has analog and digital blocks!

At $4, it looks interesting. IF it gets an Arduino core with an integrated RTOS, maybe I will become a force, but right now IMO it is only silicon before tools.
racemaniac
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by racemaniac »

I find the looking down on the PIO a bit strange.

Ok, some vendors have made similar things, some even with far better capabilities. Yet nobody in our community seems to be using them. This seems to be a very focused version that tries to solve just what the maker community would need, nothing more, and with proper backing so it will be used.

Looks like a great addition to me imo. But maybe I'm missing something?
mrburnette
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Re: No one even mentioned the new Raspberry Pi Pico?

Post by mrburnette »

racemaniac wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:22 pm
I find the looking down on the PIO a bit strange.

Ok, some vendors have made similar things, some even with far better capabilities. Yet nobody in our community seems to be using them. This seems to be a very focused version that tries to solve just what the maker community would need, nothing more, and with proper backing so it will be used.

Looks like a great addition to me imo. But maybe I'm missing something?
IMO:
In theory, it is a fantastic capability; morph some flexible logic into a serial "device" for extra capabilities: serial, SPI, etc. In Cypress PSoC land, this can be done with Verilog or with drag-n-drop editor: in the GUI, there are numerous property sheets that must be configured before the configurable logic becomes useful. Debugging is a P.I.T.A.

Now consider the trouble our forum members have with I2C and SPI "hard" silicon! Just configuring the standard parameters is problematic. STMFxxx silicon has a limited amount of configurable internal networking fabric to route physical pins to internal on-silicon components. Configurable logic requires more understanding of standards and timing; therefore, while not hard to grasp, it is complex for people who traditionally refuse to consult technical documentation; that is, a goodly number of users will find their talents strained.

I am a huge fan of Cypress and the PSoC line, but it was initially frustrating. HDL folks will relate.

I do not wish to sound negative on the Pico, but most users will need to put out far more effort to use it than they put out in this STM32duino forum. It will take a while to mature an Arduino core and likely longer to develop "canned" device configuration libs. Maybe at the point where the PIOs are libraries the device will be usable to average coders; until then it is a device before the needed software tools.

Ray
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